djchuang.com - Latest Comments in Why I like Keller more than Piper

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Raymond Lininger — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:43:16 -0000

I had a chocolate desert the other day. Not just any ordinary chocolate desert, but the warm moist kind, where the smell reaches your nose before the plate gets to the table. There is a firm outside that takes a bit for your spoon to get through, but closer to the center is more moist and juicy where you discover why it is served with a spoon - to allow one to scoop up the warm chocolatey goodness and feel it throughout one's mouth, then breath in through the nose to maximize the taste/smell pleasure. But anyways, I just gave glory to that chocolate desert because it satisfied me. This is the kind of thing that these two men do for Jesus, because he satisfies them. Perhaps they would disapprove of a conversation that argues which one of them is the most satisfying - since they are not satisfied by themselves or each other, but by Jesus. I love you!!

Raymond

p.s. thanks FC for the illustration

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

heathercreature — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:06:59 -0000

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

wong Fong Yang — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:07:36 -0000

I like what you wrote about Tim Keller. I am spending 6 weeks in Redeemer Church Planting Center and I enjoy my time listening and learning from Tim Keller.

I realised that most preaching are not gospel-centered and Christ-centered. Tim Keller certainly models what gospel and Christ centered preaching is all about. I could see that so many Manhattan secular people who come to Redeemer have been transformed by the gospel not just for justification but also sanctification. His preaching of the gospel certainly changing culture

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

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Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

eric — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:43:54 -0000

I've been a jewish Christian most of my life and no longer go to Redemer church at Hunter college because
1) Pastor Keller is an egostical elitist who rarely responds to Christians because I wrote him several times and never got any common courtesy of reply
2) Pastor Keller didn't have the courage to admit he made a historical major mistake in a sermon about how Pontius Pilate got his job, it was thru his friend Sejanus NOT his wife as Keller said then had his asistant e-mail me a thank you.
No courtesy from him I was right.
Sincerely
eric

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Big John Scott — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:02:04 -0000

So no doubt you loved his word in NyC two weeks back huh? man I'm lovin having your Dave Gibbons twitter bookmarked! Keep it up. -Big John

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Jon Spadino — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:09:41 -0000

I actually like Tim Keller a lot more than Piper. Keller speaks to both my heart and my head; whereas Piper speaks to only my head only. I have listened to numerous sermons of Pipers and gave him 250 of 350 pages but he just could not keep my attention. I kept thinking he could say the same exact things he was saying in a better way. I could be attending Pipers Church in town but I dont. Mostly because I really believe Piper leads with a desire to share his theology with others. Keller leads with a desire to share the Gospel and I think thats why I just have some very minor issues with Piper. Other than that I really like the impact he has had with others in the community in the twin cities.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Kelly — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:50:29 -0000

I attend Redeemer and I love Tim. Redeemer is one of a few churches I have been to where I do not see authoritarinism or church abuse.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Ryan — Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:40:22 -0000

Chris, well said brother. Kyle, one used to have to earn an audience to be heard, then the internet came into being and every mouse began to roar like a lion overnight. Remain the mouse till more gospel sun ripens your soul my brother. I pray that God would give you the grace to weep over the words that you've written.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

William Woo — Sun, 17 Dec 2006 06:30:48 -0000

Interesting discussion/post. I guess for me Keller has been like Hemingway. I came across those influenced by Hemingway first, so when I read Hemingway (his later stuff) I wasn't too impressed...

Its interesting what Piper said in his introduction of Tim Keller (From the Desiring God Conference on Pomo and the Gospel), that he heard the Gospel when Keller preached legalism to New York libertines who were in no danger of legalism. Much food for thought.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Chris — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:18:04 -0000

Firstly I acknowledge my own sinfullness and tendency to degrade and cause disunity in the body of faith for which I must come to my Father in humility to ask for His forgiveness. So by NO MEANS AT ALL do I see myself exempt from this. I am a sinner and if this where my gravest concern I would be amazingly blessed.

I know I am from Australia but what are you all on.

Have you ever heard of unity and being uplifting not degrading.

What a waste of your time and everyone elses all you are doing is tearing down a brother of the faith. Both of them are amazingly gifted by the Holy Spirit to preach and a blog like this brings no Glory to God for you are insulting Him in degrading Piper or Keller.

Instead of tearing one down encourage one and do not discourage another. Love does not speak a discouraging word. I am sure that Keller himself and Piper would be disappointed to see Christian brothers and sisters degrading another Pastor.

No good is gained from this how saddening.

How about we all look at 1 Corinthians 13

Love is
- patient
- kind

Love does not
- boast
- envy
- rude
- self-seeking
- keep records of wrongs

Where is the kindness? Where is the love?

What is gained from this.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Chang — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:18:43 -0000

Havent heard much from Keller.. But I'm tempted to now! :D

Both men are mightily used of God at such a time as this... may the reformed resurgence in asia bring forth revival and significant change in culture

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

nhe — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:07:31 -0000

Brett......I'm not sure that I'm following how that is uniquely American. The Brazilians said Pele was the best - there are examples all over the world.

I'm also not sure I see a problem with stating that someone or something is the best when we see it - if anything, we're giving positive credit and saying encouraging words when we do it.

Godly men like Keller and Piper certainly know that the little old lady that cleans the bathroom stalls at their churches will have a much bigger mansion in heaven than they will......its really just a matter of perspective I think.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Brett — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:08:21 -0000

Why do we Americans tend to make everything a contest or competitive? I head someone recently say that in America, no matter what the subject, someone or something is always argued as "first" or "best." He said American suffer from "firstitis."

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

nhe — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:11:47 -0000

As the proud owner of about 150 Keller cassetts, I classify as a "groupie". I live in Atlanta and go to a large Willowcreek style seeker church that I and my family love very much, but I get my weekly/daily preaching input mainly from Keller - its a style preference thing.

I've only heard Keller once live - about 11 years at a conference in NYC.....he spoke to a small group of us for about 20 minutes, and I knew right then that I had to get a hold of everything this guy has said - no matter the cost.

It was interesting to read what John Lee wrote here about Redeemer snobbery - that doesn't seem logically consistent with the preaching I'm hearing on tape.....I'd like to understand better what John means.

One of the great things about Keller is that he transcends and doesn't fit the mold of the modern reformed evangelical. I've been told by my PCA pastor friends that at PCA General Assemblys, TK sits in the back and is very unassuming - he's viewed as a radical there - but I think in a good "missional" sense - they don't know what to with a guy who is air-tight with his theology - but doesn't see it as "the main thing" - yet blows the rest of them away with his ability to speak to the lost and mobilize a missional congregation.

I was on staff with Campus Crusade for 12 years and have had the privilege of hearing live some of the greats - Tony Evans, John Hannah, Howard Hendricks, Sproul, Piper, Steve Brown........Keller is the best, hands down.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Thomas E. Ward, Jr. — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:48:33 -0000

Hmmm...

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Ben — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:36:15 -0000

I think people are taking you a little too seriously, DJ. I don't think you have a shrine in your house dedicated to Tim Keller (or do you?). :) I think everyone can have their preferences and admire certain people more than others. It's a wise caution especially for younger impressionable guys like me to not go overboard with our man-crushes (I know I can do this sometimes) and remember that Jesus is the object of our affection and the author of our faith. But we should all be looking to and learning from wise theologians and practioners.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Shu — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 02:53:55 -0000

I must have to bring my small contribution from North of the border in Toronto. Keller's theology, methodology, humility, etc has given me MUCH to think about and consider AND practice. I do cling and relate more to Keller than Piper. I think DJ is becoming similar to Keller in terms of his blog commenting ;) (especially on mine on occasion!) I hope the Desiring God conference will edify the body of Christ and teach us all some more from these giants of teachers...

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Jim — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:59:54 -0000

Great discussion. Obviously, both of these guys have had a profound impact on many of us. It has been interesting to see Keller 'take off' over the last 4 years or so. I graduated from RTS Orlando in '02, and when I went, all these PCA guys kept telling me about Keller. I'd never heard of him at all, even though I'd been through the pipeline of the evangelical machine (Wheaton, etc.).

Keller then came and taught a class at RTS called 'Preaching the Gospel to Postmoderns', which was the most important class I've ever taken in my life. So many light bulbs went off. Truly life changing. However, Keller was still totally under the radar in some sense. I went to a Redeemer pastors weekened and had a great time, and I was still amazed at that point ('03) how low profile the church was in some ways.

But now, it seems every time I get online, there are Keller groupies all over the place! (I say that in the best sense of the expression.) It is wild. And a wonderful turn in God's providence as more and more people wrestle with and 'get' the gospel.

I remember vaguely Keller being somewhat critical of the whole Christian Hedonism idea in class. It was interesting to hear that, b/c you've got two brilliant pastors who both owe so much to Edwards and read him in slightly different ways. I'm very pumped to see Keller and Piper together however. It's sort of like the Dream Team back in '92: Bird and Magic on the same team! :)

Anyway...I"m not sure why I shared all that...just interesting times...

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Matthew Westerholm — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:49:32 -0000

I think the Lord sends different personality types at the same time to show people who reject ALL that they are really rejecting the gospel. Can you think of some?

Jesus > John the Baptist: one played a flute, they didn't dance; the other played a dirge and they didn't mourn. (Mt. 11:17)

Calvin > Luther: one the careful analytical writer, the other the fiery mover and shaker.

Edwards > Whifield: one an intellectual giant who preached, the other an oratory giant who thought.

Anyways -- sorry to steal so much space. I'll write more on my blog later.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

djchuang — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:50:02 -0000

There is none like you, Sam. :) No one else can touch the intensity or legacy of what God's done through a man like John Piper. :) Thanks for your clarification about TK's and JP's respective contributions.

I'm not seeking agreement or disagreement, but simply humbly and contritely asking for your help. I think there are many 'apples' like Mahoney, Giglio, Harris, Dever, Mohler, et al, (granted they each have their own callings & contributions, and I like each of them for other reasons) but I'm at a loss to find other 'oranges', those who have sound "orthodox" theology and can speak kindly and gently (sorry, Ben, Driscoll doesn't quite fit kinder and gentler.) So, can you help?

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

daniel li — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:38:26 -0000

I understand your point on the definition of "idolatry", DJ, both Webster's and the bible. And while I think John Lee's subsequent comment on elitism does a better job of explaining in words some of my thoughts on the matter, I'm also using the word idolatry intentionally.

I think it can be said of those that might fall into the "elitism" camp that the danger of idolatry is not far away either. When we begin to rationalize our beliefs or our actions because TK/JP believe this or they do that, we are replacing the ultimate standard that we measure everything up to.

You are correct in saying, though, that it is the individual's responsibility to check his/herself on idolatry and to what we cling to. My fear is that there is a segment of the christian community that doesn't do it because they don't realize they've created an idol for themselves (whether its TK, JP, or any other pastor/theologian/spiritual figure).

You've certainly opened the box on this topic and it's been a great read. I really appreciate all the different viewpoints and feedback.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Sam S — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:06:23 -0000

I diasgree with you DJ in that I think there are very few apples and oranges. While very few communicate the Gospel as lucidly and incisively as TK, very few communicate the glory of God and the Gospel with the magnificent breadth and combination of heart and mind as Piper.

I will be excited to hear from both next weekend. I'll be live-blogging from the conference.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Ben — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:01:25 -0000

Oh, and also I would like to suggest Mark Driscoll as another "orange". Although I'm pretty sure people who are not Reformed don't really like him, he is effective at communicating sound doctrine to today's non-Christian; just look at his rapidly growing church full of thousands of body-pierced, beer-drinking punk-rockers who hold to conservative theological views.

Re: Why I like Keller more than Piper

Ben — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:44:47 -0000

Whoa...seems like you really hit a chord here, DJ. I especially like the nicknames we've come up here, like T-Kell and J-Pipe. They are like rap superstars amoung young thinking pastor-types.

I really admire the Kell-unit because he's so dang smart and can really communcate the gospel to non-Christians. I also think he could be the first to bridge the gap between conservative Reformed-types and progressive Emergent-types. I loved what he said in his Resurgence talks about bringing together the personal forgiveness aspect of the Gospel with the redeeming-creation kingdom aspect. We need both, not just one or the other!

I really admire Pipe-diddy because of his combination of sound, exegetical theology with humble, lived-out personal character. The man loves his Bible, and whenever he preaches, I see a vision of the grandeur of God that stirs in me to the depths of my being -- I think that's the "general revelation" speaking in me.

I think it'd be great if pastors were influenced by Piper's theology and then learned to apply it and communicate it like Keller.